美国网友:俄罗斯在哪个星球上置身事外过?过去一年半来,他们一直是马杜罗的生命线,至少还派出私人雇佣兵保护政府官员。更不用说他们在这个国家有一个人员配备齐全的军事基地
CHINA JOINS RUSSIA IN BACKING VENEZUELA AGAINST U.S. MOVES, WARNS OF ‘SERIOUS CONSEQUENCES’ TO DONALD TRUMP’S PLAN
中国和俄罗斯共同支持委内瑞拉反对美国的行动,并警告唐纳德•特朗普的计划将导致“严重后果”
[–]oddjam Colorado
I mean they have been. The US is the only one trying to make regime change happen.
我的意思是俄罗斯曾经干过这事。但现在美国是唯一一个试图让政权更迭发生的国家。
[–]canseco-fart-box
On what planet it Russia staying out of this? They’ve been the lifeline of Maduro for the last year and a half at least have even sent in private mercenaries to protect government officials. Not to mention they have a fully staffed military base in the country
俄罗斯在哪个星球上置身事外过?过去一年半来,他们一直是马杜罗的生命线,至少还派出私人雇佣兵保护政府官员。更不用说他们在这个国家有一个人员配备齐全的军事基地
[–]crooked_erection
So after the US interventions took effect they offered to help? REALLL NOSY!
所以在美国的干预措施生效后他们愿意提供帮助?真tm好管闲事!
[–]MrHett
America was Venezuela number one customer prior to the sanctions. And these sanctions only seem to target America since there is no binding UN resolution. The administration itself has said nothing about actually sending troops into Venezuela. All we have are pictures of Bolton 5000 troops to Columbia. I will preface by saying this administration has stressed me out and made me feel like a paranoid conspiracy theorist. I dont know how someone could live there entire life feeling this way. Anyways these actions only make sense if Trump never plans on sending troops into Venezuela. The sanctions are just put into place to stop American companies from buying oil from them. This would allow Russia and China to get a foothold into there market. And once that is accomplished it is hard to cut ties. I dont think President Monroe would be happy with this turn of events.
在制裁之前,美国是委内瑞拉的头号客户。这些制裁似乎只是美国的单独制裁,因为没有具有约束力的联合国决议。特朗普政府本身并没有说要向委内瑞拉派遣军队。我们只有博尔顿“派5000人去哥伦比亚”的纸条照片。我首先要说的是,本届政府让我倍感压力,让我觉得自己像一个偏执的阴谋论者。我不知道怎么会有人在那里住了一辈子都有这种感觉。不管怎么讲,这些行动只有在特朗普从未计划向委内瑞拉派兵的情况下才有意义。制裁只是为了阻止美国公司从他们那里购买石油。这将使俄罗斯和中国在那里的市场获得立足点。一旦实现了这一点,就很难切断联系。我认为(当年的)门罗总统不会对事态的这一转折感到高兴。
[–]theRealRedherringCalifornia
why? Russia now has a free pass into the South American oil market now. Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa have a competitive market called BRICS.
Venezuela is one of the largest oil repository known. now they have no other choice except to explore their options in the other market.
now thankfully to Drumpf Russia can bid a far, far lower price... since Venezuela has no other way forward.
this is not for the benefit of Venezuela's people, nor the US... only Russia.
为什么?俄罗斯现在可以自由进入南美石油市场了。巴西、俄罗斯、印度、中国和南非有一个竞争激烈的市场,称为金砖四国。
委内瑞拉是已知最大的石油储藏国之一。现在他们别无选择,只能在其他市场探索自己的选择。
幸运的是,现在俄罗斯的出价可以低得多……因为委内瑞拉别无选择。
这既不符合委内瑞拉人民的利益,也不符合美国的利益……只符合俄罗斯的利益。
[–]BORKED_POTATO
Sounds like this is a internal proxy war in the making. The socialist party is backed by Russia, China, and Cuba while the US and its allies support the counter opposition.
听起来这是一场内部代理战争。社会党得到俄罗斯、中国和古巴的支持,而美国及其盟友则支持反对派。
[–]XVll-L[S]
Can you explain? I'm out of the loop.
looks like you're on point. Russian has deployed mercenary to Venezuela
你能解释一下吗?我有点蒙。
看来你说对了。俄罗斯在委内瑞拉部署了雇佣兵
[–]luftwaffllz
A bit of a stretch? More like absolutely fucking unrealistic. You would have to be blind to the realities of language to not understand how polar Russia is to socialism now.
有点夸大吗?更像是tmd不现实。你必须无视语言的现实,才能理解俄罗斯现在的社会主义有多么极端。
[–]DrLuny
Russia is a capitalist state ruled by a class of oligarchs. They hate socialism (in their own country) and are afraid of their people finding inspiration in their Soviet past to the point that they launched hilariously stupid propaganda against the Russian Revolution as the annivereary was rolling around. They have to an extent inherited the diplomatic connections the Soviet Union had with socialist and pseudo-socialist governments and political movements which they continue to exploit for their own purposes. Domestically they are not socialist at all and are terrified of the Russian people being inspired by socialist ideas to oppose their oligarchy.
俄罗斯是一个由一群寡头统治的资本主义国家。他们憎恨(在他们自己国家的)社会主义,害怕他们的人民从他们的苏联历史中找到启发,以至于在周年纪念日到来之际,他们发起了愚蠢可笑的反对俄罗斯革命的宣传。它们在某种程度上继承了苏联同社会主义和伪社会主义政府和政治运动之间的外交关系,它们继续为自己的目的利用这种关系。在国内,他们根本不是社会主义者,他们害怕俄罗斯人民被社会主义思想鼓动起来反对他们的寡头政治。
[–]Sonicmansuperb
You break it by making the average citizen comfortable, and then show them where there interests may lie. And no, I don't think neoliberalism would be a solution either, nor am I in any way a neolib.
你让普通市民感到舒适,然后告诉他们哪里可能有利益。不,我认为新自由主义也不是一个解决方案,我也不是一个新保守主义者。
[–]kaladyr
USSR brought their people from feudalism to an economic powerhouse that defeated the Nazis, made nukes, and beat the US to space in less than 50 years. are you talking about delusion?
Are you claiming Tsarist serfdom and illiteracy were better?
Hint: yes, yes they are.
苏联把他们的人民从封建主义带到一个经济强国,在不到50年的时间里打败了纳粹,制造了核武器,并在太空竞赛中打败了美国。你是在说幻觉吗?
你认为沙皇的农奴制和文盲更好吗?
提示:是的,是的,它们更好。
[–]insanePowerMe
China gives little fuck about Venezuela. They just want to make a statement that revolutions and system changes are not supported by China.
中国才tm不管委内瑞拉呢。他们只是想表明中国不支持革命和制度变革的态度。
[–]bigpasmurf
Well that and they want to limit American hegemony while broadening their own. Especially if they don't have to deploy military forces on mass
他们想要限制美国的霸权,同时扩大自己的霸权。尤其是在他们不需要大规模部署军队的情况下
[–]zajhein
Venezuela is 50 billion dollars in debt to China and around 20 billion to Russia, so they both absolute don't want a new government to take over and default or cancel that debt.
China wants to delay change in order to gain influence over any new government so they can insure they get repaid, preferably in cheaper oil and faster production, while Russia would like Venezuela to stay as it is to slowly get paid back, keep oil prices high from low production, and help destabilize relations in the Americas.
委内瑞拉欠中国500亿美元,欠俄罗斯大约200亿美元,所以他们都绝对不希望一个新政府接管、拖欠或取消这些债务。
中国希望推迟改革,以便对任何新政府施加影响,因此,他们可以确保自己得到偿还,最好是通过更便宜的石油和更快的生产,而俄罗斯希望委内瑞拉保持现状,缓慢地得到偿还,用低产量来保持高油价,并破坏美洲关系的稳定。
[–]Like1OngoingOrgasm
The Chavistas aren't really that socialist either. More nationalist/anti-imperialist than anything.
查韦斯主义者也不是真正的社会主义者。它比什么都民族主义/反帝国主义。
[–]shadozcreep
True, but it's their own business either way. They're the most popular political movement in their country (something like 30% of the populace I think)
没错,但这是他们自己的事。他们是他们国家最受欢迎的政治运动(我想大约占30%的人口)
[–]zeroOneTwoThreeFour5
China and Russia aren’t necessarily supporting the regime because it is socialist, but because it is opposed to US influence.
中国和俄罗斯不一定是因为这个政权是社会主义才支持它的,而是因为它反对美国的影响力。
[–]shadozcreep
Sounds like things would be simplified greatly if the US wasnt being unjustly aggressive with Venezuela
听起来,如果美国不对委内瑞拉采取不公正的侵略行动,事情就会大大简化
[–]shadozcreep
The US has backed numerous coup attempts in Venezuela since 2002 and maintains a working relationship with the opposition and Venezuelan oligarchs. The imperialist fingers are deep into this pie
自2002年以来,美国支持了委内瑞拉的多次政变企图,并与反对派和委内瑞拉寡头保持着合作关系。帝国主义的手指深深地插在这块馅饼里
[–]tjt5055
I think Cuba is pretty clearly a Socialist country still.
我认为古巴显然仍然是一个社会主义国家。
[–]Spacelieon
I've read the exact phrase "that's a stretch" in reference to various socialist countries being defined as socialist like 30 times in this thread...
我已经在这个帖子里读过30次“那是一种夸大”,指的是不同的社会主义国家被定义为社会主义。
[–]tehbored
Venzuela's oil is pretty low quality and not very valuable, especially these days.
委内瑞拉的石油质量很差,价值也不高,尤其是现在。
[–]Voodoosoviet
Reddit likes to call Venezuela socialist because it likes having a ready excuse to say "socialism is bad" at hand, despite numerous evidence that the current crisis is because of capitalism and the Venezuela might have had aspirations of becoming a socialist entity 20 years ago when Chavez was around, it never actually go to that point.
Reddit喜欢称委内瑞拉社会主义,因为它喜欢有现成的借口——“社会主义不好”。尽管有大量证据表明,当前的危机是资本主义造成的,并且20年前,当查韦斯还在委内瑞拉的时候,委内瑞拉可能就有成为一个社会主义实体的愿望,但它从来没有达到那个程度。
[–]CrazyBKLoL
Don't get embarrassed that kind of people is everywhere not just in America. Is very difficult to understand that is not that simple because people take things for granted. They probably imagine that we are living in similar conditions like theirs.
不要感到尴尬,这种人不仅在美国,在世界各地都有。很难理解,这并不是那么简单,因为人们认为事情是理所当然的。他们可能认为我们生活在和他们相似的环境中。
我们致力于传递世界各地老百姓最真实、最直接、最详尽的对中国的看法
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